Editable Region & Table based layout

[TonyAKA]

Hi (New DW (CS3) user, and New to web design!) After searching the site for a
similar problem, I see a few, but whatever I try does not work. I have a table
based layout (with 0 cell padding 0 cell space etc). I've saved it as a
template, and when trying to insert the region, simply get a small area the
size of the name of the region (left, centre). Fine, I think to my self, I'll
just insert a table within this small area. Great, I say there it is! But when
I resize the cell to my 855 wide X 450 tall, the original area stretches (gets
taller) leaving a huge space either side (top / bottom) and distorting the
height of the page! I've tried using the property inspector to align the
contents of the cell to the top and centre, but then when trying to edit a
child page I can't locate the editable region! I would like the entire cell to
be a blank canvas, ready for editing, but instead get a measly little blue box
if any? I notice that if you make seperate tables, and select one of the
tables to be the edit region, it works fine. But then I have issues centering
the whole page. I would really appreciate some help with this issue. Thanks
in advance, Tony.

[Murray *ACE*]

Your issue has nothing to do with templates and everything to do with basic
HTML tables and how to manage them. I suggest you run through the table
tutorials at the DW FAQ link in my signature, and then go read about working
with HTML tables at the W3 site -

http://www.w3schools.com
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================

Post by TonyAKA
Hi (New DW (CS3) user, and New to web design!) After searching the site for a
similar problem, I see a few, but whatever I try does not work. I have a table
based layout (with 0 cell padding 0 cell space etc). I've saved it as a
template, and when trying to insert the region, simply get a small area the
size of the name of the region (left, centre). Fine, I think to my self, I'll
just insert a table within this small area. Great, I say there it is! But when
I resize the cell to my 855 wide X 450 tall, the original area stretches (gets
taller) leaving a huge space either side (top / bottom) and distorting the
height of the page! I've tried using the property inspector to align the
contents of the cell to the top and centre, but then when trying to edit a
child page I can't locate the editable region! I would like the entire cell to
be a blank canvas, ready for editing, but instead get a measly little blue box
if any? I notice that if you make seperate tables, and select one of the
tables to be the edit region, it works fine. But then I have issues centering
the whole page. I would really appreciate some help with this issue.
Thanks
in advance, Tony.

[TonyAKA]

Thanks Murray,

I'll do just that. :smile;

[Murray *ACE*]

Good luck!
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================

Post by TonyAKA
Thanks Murray,
I'll do just that. :smile;

[TonyAKA]

Right. I've been through the many tutorials (thanks Murray!). I've learned a
lot so far. But I just can't seem to get my head around this problem. I also
have the O'Reilly Missing Manual book. The only thing so far that's mentioned
is... 'If you use tables to layout your pages, you?ll often assign one table
cell as the main area to hold the primary content of the page. In the Tag
selector, just click the <td> tag associated with that cell and use any of the
techniques discussed here to convert the contents of that cell into an editable
region.' I can find nothing else on the subject of 'what happens if this won't
work'. Am I right in thinking that the Blue Edit Region Tab should appear above
the edit region? If so, why does mine appear in the middle of the edit region?

[Murray *ACE*]

Post by TonyAKA
Am I right in thinking that the Blue Edit Region Tab should appear above
the edit region?

Yes.

Post by TonyAKA
If so, why does mine appear in the middle of the edit region?

It's because you have placed the edit region IN the container, not AROUND
it, i.e.,

this -

<td><!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="foo" -->...<!--
InstanceEndEditable --></td>

not this -

<!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="foo" --><td>...</td><!--
InstanceEndEditable -->

I believe you can just manually adjust that in the template page.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================

Post by TonyAKA
Right. I've been through the many tutorials (thanks Murray!). I've learned a
lot so far. But I just can't seem to get my head around this problem. I also
have the O'Reilly Missing Manual book. The only thing so far that's mentioned
is... 'If you use tables to layout your pages, you?ll often assign one table
cell as the main area to hold the primary content of the page. In the Tag
selector, just click the <td> tag associated with that cell and use any of the
techniques discussed here to convert the contents of that cell into an editable
region.' I can find nothing else on the subject of 'what happens if this won't
work'. Am I right in thinking that the Blue Edit Region Tab should appear above
the edit region? If so, why does mine appear in the middle of the edit region?

[TonyAKA]

Murray, Thank You! You've just made my day! I also noticed that by aligning
the ER to Top (in the template), I was able to insert a table (of the same
dimensions) in the Child page and not have the unwanted distortion of the
original one! All the best Tony

[Murray *ACE*]

Editable regions have no layout function. When you say you are aligning the
editable region to the top, you really mean you are aligning the <td> to the
top. Just to clarify....
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================

Post by TonyAKA
Murray, Thank You! You've just made my day! I also noticed that by aligning
the ER to Top (in the template), I was able to insert a table (of the same
dimensions) in the Child page and not have the unwanted distortion of the
original one! All the best Tony

[TonyAKA]

Yes, badly worded by me! I meant the td tag in the template. I gather there is no way of formatting an editable region and that the ER is just whatever part of the document you make it.

[Murray *ACE*]

Editable regions have no impact on layout. They exist only in DW's "mind",
since they are ordinary HTML comments. They cannot format, or position.
They are slaves to their containers.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================

Post by TonyAKA
Yes, badly worded by me! I meant the td tag in the template. I gather
there is no way of formatting an editable region and that the ER is just
whatever part of the document you make it.

[Alan]

Post by TonyAKA
I gather there is no way of formatting an editable region and that the ER is
just whatever part of the document you make it.

think of it this way- Editable Areas are just html comment tags.
Whatever is inside of them can be edited in the child pages.
The editable region has no shape or style. It's just a section in the code.

Whatever shape or style you want it to have will be done by the tags/objects
you place inside of the editable area comments. And by the structure of the
layout that is outside of the editable area

Also- the tags inside of the editable area have to properly nested.
If you start a <table> or <div> inside of the editable area, it must be
closed inside of the editable area.

[TonyAKA]

Alan, that's a good way of putting it. I think as far as this particular issue goes, it's crystal clear to me now.

What a great forum!

Thanks guys
:wink;

[Alan]

as for your table problem, would have to see a sample page.

As a guess- i think you need to understand that a table is like an x/y grid
system.

all table cells in a row will be the same height.
all table cells in a column will be the same width.

you can't adjust them individually, they are part of the row/column they
occupy.

if you set a cell to say 100 by 100 pix and then place something in it that
is 200 by 200, it will expand to fit the object.

A common thing is "how do i have a menu on the left and the main content on
the right"

Say you want a full width banner/nav at the top of the page, then a menu on
the left, content on right, and a full width footer at bottom.

That would be a table with 3 rows and 2 columns. So put that on the page.
In the top row, merge the left and right cells. Same for the bottom row.

now, in the middle row- say you want a vertical menu with 5 buttons.
click in the middle left cell. Insert a 5 row one column table.
This nested table will keep these buttons from spreading apart if you make
the page longer with a lot of content on the right.

that said- table based layout is the way of the past.
If you don't understand it and are learning from scratch, suggest you learn
how to do CSS positioned layouts from the beginning and not detour into
table based layouts.

I'm still struggling with them, but it's mostly because i used tables for
layout for too many years. Others who get comfortable with css can layout a
page with css much more quickly and with much less code than i would make a
similar layout with tables.

[TonyAKA]

[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Newsgroup User[/b][/b][/i] that said- table
based layout is the way of the past. If you don't understand it and are
learning from scratch, suggest you learn how to do CSS positioned layouts from
the beginning and not detour into table based layouts.[/q] Yes, this is what I
understand from what I've been reading in the O'Reilly manual and other sources
on the web. It's just that I suddenly found myself getting it done (with the
exception of the above problem) and enjoying it this way. I think I'll take
your advice though. Maybe get the site done for now and work on something new
in the meantime.

[Murray *ACE*]

http://apptools.com/examples/pagelayout101.php

It's a good start....
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================

Post by TonyAKA
[q][i]Originally posted by: [b][b]Newsgroup User[/b][/b][/i] that said- table
based layout is the way of the past. If you don't understand it and are
learning from scratch, suggest you learn how to do CSS positioned layouts from
the beginning and not detour into table based layouts.[/q] Yes, this is what I
understand from what I've been reading in the O'Reilly manual and other sources
on the web. It's just that I suddenly found myself getting it done (with the
exception of the above problem) and enjoying it this way. I think I'll take
your advice though. Maybe get the site done for now and work on something new
in the meantime.

[TonyAKA]

Thanks Mur,

Looks interesting. I'm looking forward to leaning all this!

[Murray *ACE*]

You're welcome. We all pretty much learned here. Let us know what help you
need.
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================

Post by TonyAKA
Thanks Mur,
Looks interesting. I'm looking forward to leaning all this!

[TonyAKA]

That's really encouraging. Thanks

[Murray *ACE*]

Good luck!
--
Murray --- ICQ 71997575
Adobe Community Expert
(If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
==================
http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
==================

Post by TonyAKA
That's really encouraging. Thanks